why do people go into science?

[jrtom]

Women In Science

The title is actually somewhat misleading, as it has more to do with reasons why people go into science as a career. I think some of it is oversimplified, but it's worth reading.

Comments

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

First off, the very first statement in the article/post is incorrect. Summers was not fired, he resigned. "Lawrence H. Summers announced today [Feb 21 2006] that he will conclude his tenure as president of Harvard University at the end of the 2005-06 academic year." [Ref] It's *extremely* difficult to fire a president. It would've probably taken an additional year, so instead he was pressured out of office. It's better for all that way.

Otherwise, he's got good points. I wrote a post myself about the pain of how long it takes to get anywhere in science. It sucks.

Pay-wise he's right too. K-12 teachers in cities start at $40-50k (though it drops as low as $23k in rural areas). At the Community College I'm at (teaching science), I started at $35k. I must say the most important thing I learned in grad school is that a single person *can* live on $16k.

My classmates in grad school were at least 75% international students. They were also a LOT better than us domestics - whether it was because their undergrad (or more likely K-12) education was just better than ours, or because they were the best of the best of the best (and we were simply the best of the best), I'm not sure, but we Americans were consistently the lowest grades in our classes.

Science is NOT exciting. When doing research, I spent 12-16 hours a day staring at a computer. Got my first glasses in grad school. I'm an astronomer, and I never got to look through telescopes. "Exciting" came in the fact that the programs I was writing were manipulating Hubble Space Telescope data, or that I was emailing with a collaborator in Paris. Whoo.

</rant>

[jrtom.livejournal.com]

Much of what you've said here (in terms of generalities) isn't new to me; I've been a PhD student for, well, um, about 7 years. (Plus two years prior to that of being a MSc student.) The income differential is, if anything, even stronger for people in my field (CS), although at least there are a fair number of employment opportunities for PhDs (in various industrial research labs) that pay pretty well, have good professional recognition, and even let you publish if you want to.

I'm surprised at your report of K-12 salaries; my mom was an elementary school teacher for a while (while I was in high school) and as I recall salaries were lower then, even in a fairly affluent area (Northern Virginia). (OTOH, that was *cough* > 15 years ago. gak.)

International students, comparison: yes and no. The proportions I see are about the same, but the quality varies more, in my experience. I would agree that their dedication (if not necessarily the commitment to the PhD per se) is typically higher, but they tend to be not nearly as good at communicating their results and their significance, in my experience. (One could argue that the real measure is in the science--and to a large extent that's true--but if no one reads your papers (or understands your talks) then it hardly matters how smart you are.)

I also have a friend who's an astronomy postdoc. :)

My research, not surprisingly, also involves 12-16 hours/day of staring at a computer. :) I'd say that it's exciting--or at least engaging and interesting--to the extent that I'm able to learn new things and solve new problems. The reading of all the back literature so as to be able to demonstrate that really, no one's done this before, though, can be, well, less than stimulating.

Glad you've found a niche for yourself, in any case.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

My apolgies if anything I said was excessive - I usually assume everyone on the internet is a layman when I'm feeling nice. (They're 15-year-old boys when I'm feeling mean.)

K-12 salaries are DEFINITELY very regional. The numbers I quoted were for the Northeast: $40-50k in NYC and Boston; $23k in Western MA.

Grad students in Astronomy have a single goal: PhD, and teach at a university. Any other professions we end up with (such as community college, K-12, telescope operator, satellite programmer, NASA engineer, Wall Street) come from washing out of the PhD program with an MS. International grad students have only one modification in their career goals: take the PhD to a Uni. back home (if they're non-Western), or take it to another EU state if they are Western.

Doing research is only exciting if you're thoroughly a geek committed to that field. I was 99% committed, which wasn't quite enough. ;) I'll go back to grad school for my mid-life crisis.

[jrtom.livejournal.com]

No apologies necessary. Although I must say that I am shocked--shocked!--that you haven't perused my personal website in detail. ;)

It's not 100% certain that I'll end up finishing my PhD, for a variety of reasons. (I'll be starting a full-time job in June and--in theory--writing my dissertation on the side.) If I don't, I may or may not go back for my mid-life crisis. We'll see, I guess. :)

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, the last thing I need right now is another distraction/attention divider. But thanks. :) [Ref]